Skeleton Steed Now in the Store

December 16, 2010

General, LOTRO News, LOTRO Store

So, yeah…

The Skeleton Pony  (The Painted Skeleton Steed) is now in the store from December 17th 12am Eastern (-5 GMT) through January 6th, 2011.

Item Cost Description
steedLevel Usable: 5+
Classes Usable: All
Store Location: Travel > Mounts > Festival Mounts
alt1,495 A dramatically painted steed, coloured jet black and patterned with pale white skeleton bones. This steed has 100 health and allows the character purchasing it to travel at 162% speed. Click hereto learn more about the Steeds of Middle-earth!
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Avatar of Merric

About Merric

Co-founder of CSTM and an avid LOTRO fan.

View all posts by Merric

75 Responses to “Skeleton Steed Now in the Store”

  1. Carlosjuero Says:

    I know I am in the minority here but I am against this.

    People tried for days on end to get this very rare drop (the only festival horse to date with a rare drop) and didn’t get it… it had a sense of accomplishment and luck to finally get that drop [I guess, I never got one].

    Rep horses in the store are different, as there is a straightforward way to get them. The same goes for past festival mounts – there was always a straightforward way to get them.. the skeleton horse was the first horse that relied completely on the RNG. There was NO possible way to get this horse without getting the rare drop (unlike every other horse type).

    My expectations are too high, I know, but I am disappointed.

    Just my opinion though, I don’t expect that everyone will agree with it (in fact I am guessing most folks are either in the “Great!” or the “Told you so/knew it was going to happen” category).

    I give up. I am just going to keep my expectations as low as possible and try to keep going with LotRO by just playing and enjoying it as much as possible… I just hope that Turbine doesn’t decide to throw some water down in sub zero temps and make a slippery slope.

    • Tech-D Says:

      I can say I agree with you, I was one of the unlucky ones that didn’t get the horse. So now having it for sale on the store cheapens it IMHO.

      Just my $.02

    • Avatar of Merric
      Merric Says:

      I don’t really like it, to be honest. It does kind of steal away some of the exclusivity of it. I got the horse on one of my characters and after riding it a couple of times I have to say it doesn’t do anything for me anymore. And I would strongly caution that anyone spending $15.00 on a skin might want to consider what they’re really going to get out of it.

      Now some people may be dying to get their hands on it, and personally I wouldn’t mind getting the horse on my main character, but I just wouldn’t use it. Its stats do not justify my use of the horse and since I really don’t RP, I can’t see myself using it.

      I hope that those who want it purchase it and enjoy it. Just make sure you don’t have buyer’s remorse afterwards.

      • Isemgar Says:

        I am with you Merric. I was lucky enough to win it on my main near the end of the festival. I used it during the festival about 50% of the time, but I found both the Inn League and AA steeds much more interesting to look at. And then the November patch came, and the only time you won’t find me on my World Renown steed is if I am in Moria. I’ll probably pull this one out during the fall festival next year, but otherwise, it’s a pretty uninteresting mount now that it is purchasable. I hope that others see this before they spend their money on it, and perhaps Turbine will see that “rare gimmick items” become worthless once they lose their rarity.

  2. Avatar of Kiarane
    Kiarane Says:

    Hum, is there going to be anything left that will makes it worth actually playing?

    I’m not that upset with this specific horse, I’m just wondering where (if!) it’s going to stop… Because seriously, if I have a lvl 65, and I’m a casual player (like most Lotro players seems to be) what is left for me in the game but grind those ”hard to get” kind of items?

    • Avatar of Merric
      Merric Says:

      It stinks of marketing to me. Someone is pushing the boundaries and this goes a bit overboard. Hopefully people will vote with their money and this will bet a one-time thing.

    • n0name28 (Ranni) Says:

      That’s what’s eating at me. They put out that Steed of Night (?) horse saying it was rare and only offered for a very short period of time. I was shocked to see folks bought it (I don’t like it and wouldn’t spend that much on a horse) but when they announced it was so popular, it would be in the store now? That irked me. Those that jumped and spent points thinking they were getting a ‘rare’ horse … wow.

      And now the skeleton horse. What a kick in the teeth only this one was one that ‘could only be gotten in game’. So much for a sense of accomplishment for those who were lucky enough to get one.

      Speaking of the sense of accomplishment, I have to have it to play a game. It’s silly given it’s a pixelated victory, but having to work hard to earn something, be it Determination from the small worms in the Trollshaws, a Skeleton horse, or lvl 65, I love that feeling that I did it. Seeing virtues in the store irks me something fierce. I think they’re flat WRONG on this. They proclaim ‘rare’ then take the rare away. They say nothing will be in the store that can … forget how they put it, but nothing to effect game play. Hello? Virtures? And to think I thought health pots were pushing it at one time.

      I used to feel that we were one big caring community because the folks at Turbine made me feel that I/we mattered. Now it’s like only money matters. They’re chipping away at what made Lotro stand out from every other game out there. I feel dumb for being so naive.

      I bet we get cosmetic pets with combat buffs afterall.

    • Isemgar Says:

      I hope it stops before they put the World Renown or any of the meta-deed steeds up on the store. Those take an incredible amount of work to obtain, and other than the titles received for them, they are the only bit of renown a player can “wear on their sleeve” that is obvious to all.

  3. Lightfingers of Riddermark Says:

    I don’t really care what is for sale in the store. I’m VIP and I hate rare drops. Logging in 7 chars a day at the chest was boring and not worth the time. Since a loot drop is not what I call playing the game, (i.e. grinding kills for deeds, dungeons for tokens), what people want to spend their points on is their business. I hope Turbine makes a lot of money from the store because that means the game will keep going and reach Mordor someday. For a while, I thought LOTRO was going to die before even reaching Isengard/Fangorn/Rohan.

  4. Tanek Says:

    As some in the forums are saying, we probably could have seen this coming. But the way Turbine is making changes/additions/removals to items like horses and cosmetic outfits in-game and in-store, we can probably make *any* guess at this point and have a decent chance at being correct.

    That’s my current problem with the whole thing. I don’t get the sense that there is any consistency, any plan that will be followed in the future. I understand that they are still testing the store in some ways, but still…

    Should I expect that all horses and cosmetics available this year will be store exclusives next year? Will the skeleton painted horse even be available in the haunted burrow for 2011? What about dance emotes? Will the current ones be removed and sent to the store like last year’s cloaks?

    I want to have fun with the festivals, not spend them trying to guess Turbine’s next move. Plus, I have enough bagspace anxiety as it is. Should I hoard all festival items because they may be removed from the game?

    If Turbine would just come out with a plan. Tell us that horses will be retired after two years. Or even one year. That cosmetics will be available for limited time in-game and then will be only in the store. Something. Anything.

    It may be that things like this would have been removed from in-game access methods whether or not f2p had happened. Maybe it is good that the store keeps them available in some way. But right now, the way this is currently being handled, it feels more like existing content is being removed from the game in favor of the store. Yes, it is only cosmetics, but when we were told that subscription players would not be losing anything because of the store, I think most probably had the impression that it would be *new* items as store exclusives. Like the Steed of Night, or some of the other cloaks that are in the store.

    This…I don’t know. from the outside, it seems Turbine is just flailing around randomly. I can’t predict what will be next and that causes me some anxiety. Maybe it is just me. Maybe I’m odd. (Ok, I *am* odd, but you know what I mean.) If so, great. If not, I think Turbine is going to have to have a solid plan soon and communicate that plan to the players. I don’t want to see ill will and lack of trust start to grow. This is a great game and a great company. I’d like them to both do well and have happy players.

  5. Paeroka Says:

    I wouldn’t even say that it lessens the worth for those who have it. I am one of the lucky ones. Tried it every day with three of my chars. Two friends also tried it. So out of 5 characters who tried daily, one was lucky and got the horse.

    I was annoyed about that because previously, when you wanted to get a horse, you could get it. You weren’t a “victim” of a very low drop chance during a festival.

    Now, however, I see why they decided to do that. It’s like they’re dangling a carrot in front of us, showing us what we could get if we were lucky. And hey, now, for the cheap price of 1495 points, we can buy it! For those with VIP, that’s only three months of saving. Add to that the original Yule mount that you can only get in the store this festival and you only need to save half a year of points to get both. Or, you know, just spend more real money on top of your monthly subscription.

    I know, I know. You don’t have to get it in order to play the game. But I just like being able to get everything just by paying my monthly subscription. Having to spend money on top of a subscription is something I dislike (no matter which game it’s for).

  6. Chris Says:

    I am all for Turbine making money, when they make money we get to keep playing.

    But seriously? Its bad enough that you can level up as fast as you want with a platinum credit card, but where is the reward for the die hard players out there? The ones that spend money yes, but also have put the time in to earn things.

    I have a skele mount from the festival, and this totally takes away from the amazing uniqueness that I have when riding it. Whats next, guild rep items for sale? Instant leveling of crafts? Starting ur new alt at lvl 20?

    Make ur money turbine, but cmon don’t take it too far.

  7. Fionnuala Says:

    If you get a sense of accomplishment from walking into a room and clicking on a chest once a day then you must be really easy to please in real life.

    It’s a cosmetic item. It’s not the end of the world.

    • n0name28 (Ranni) Says:

      You’re right. It’s not the end of the world, but it’s the end of being able to trust what Turbine says. They said Lotro would never go f2p but we did. They said X would be rare but now it’s not. They said we wouldn’t see things in the store that would be ‘game changing’ but … virtues can change a heck of a lot for you.

      I understand that things change and that causes them to have to go back on what they may have previously said, but when it keeps happening, and so often … It’s hard to trust them now.

  8. Thomas Says:

    This news on yet another horse on sale makes me sick. While I never got the mount myself, I don’t think that rare drop mounts should be sold. Like many others have said it does ruin the coolness factor of the mount. :(

  9. Adelo Says:

    I have to agree with some of these above.

    It was so hard to get the mount, and once you did it felt well earned. Now you can just buy it? This makes me sad.

  10. Adam Says:

    Hate to get all Lucas on your ass’s but….

    I have a baaad feeling about all this

    seriously though, ‘its only a skin’ and ‘its only 50 of stat xx have been two justicfications so far… hell: end game armour is only them two stuck together. Im a ways off the ‘fall out shelter’ state yet, but I’m eyeing that spare patch of land in the back yard more than I used to.

  11. Ganno Says:

    I agree with basicly all here, seems if you have the money, dont bother with trying to work for items or now mounts in game, just wait and buy it later, seems they are trying way too hard to get more money from people and a larger playerbase when the game was great without all the dangling carrots and doing fine as it was before this F2P.. sad.

  12. Lucky Tiger Says:

    Well at least those of us who will still grind for the items will have less competition. If enough people just buy their things in the store they won’t have to do the adventuring and clog up the system. So Turbine gets their money and we are able to grind a little faster. win-win.

    I understand the status issue. If you can just buy it then why work for it. But is it really a competition? Do we need everyone to ooh and ahh over our stuff? If we need the attention, it will have to be for our actions rather than our stuff and maybe that will ultimately be better for all players.

    • Tanek Says:

      “Well at least those of us who will still grind for the items will have less competition.”

      Which may be fine, but what’s to say the items will even be available through the game anymore? Without a clear response from Turbine on where they are taking all of this, we won’t know what will stay in the game and what will move to be exclusively in the store from that point on.

  13. Wilifro Says:

    We are being farmed.

    • tororosso Says:

      my thoughts exactly. They’re going for a the big play, the touchdown or the grand slam way too soon.
      I believe its there’s important need to continue planting the seeds (goal increasing player base) but Store is a tool being used to harvest profits way too soon.

      We all can agree the store is doing more harm than good.

      Turbine’s hybrid structure is the way of the future but a different game company with balancing of artistic and profitably can actually make it work in a much bigger scale.
      Too bad Kate Paiz fixated w/ $#s.

  14. Odium Says:

    Some very nice comments here and people should be upset at this. Everything i have said in the posts under the Yule mount apply here tenfold. I was angry when i made those comments.

    Today i am just very very sad.

    I came back to this game because of FTP. It seems i wil leave because of it as well.

    I thought FTP was going to be way different and i guess this is why FTP games are not for me. The game is great and these actions just make it a bad experience for anybody who doesnt want to spend $30 a month on a mmo. I like to earn things in the game.

    Monthly mmos need to release content and stuff for you to come back next month. I really have to bring up WoW as it has many problems but at least they take your $15 a month and say ” ok here is what we are goinv to do to make sure you pay next month”.

    You can tell WoW is run by Gamers. LOTRO is now run my Marketing people only.

    I know the chest was a pain to some people to try every day for the horse. I only had one character but i tried as much as i could. It was very fun and on the last day i was lucky enough to get it.

    That is what mmos are about to me. I love thinking about what i am going to do to get X or how my guild and i can defeat Y. Now, all i have to do i plop my Credit Card down and i have have it all: faster lvls, cool looking items, virtues, every horse, housinv items, and plenty i cant even think about.

    In fact, now that i think about it the only 2 systems that arent in the store yet that you only do in game is LI items and Rad. And those systems are so borked that they prolly dont want to touch them

    I am trying so hard to go full blast into this game. I have a lvl 40. It seems at every corner Turbine has to make it harder and harder. I just made 4 other alts and let my account slip to premium so i will wait and see before i go VIP again.

    In fac

  15. Avatar of Ketani
    Ketani Says:

    I hated the randomness of this horse dropping in game. It’s not one that I particularly like, but for the sake of a complete collection, I faithfully checked the chest nearly every day of the Harvest Festival. I will again next year, too. It’s a rare, exciting thing to get if you’ve been looking and hoping for it for several weeks. I know it wouldn’t have the same appeal to me if I just bought some more points to buy it from the store….

  16. Scott Says:

    I had to laugh when this was tweeted awhile ago, just because I knew people trying 200+ times and still not getting that horse. Time is money, and *if I wanted the horse* $15 is better than all that time wasted.

    As for those who got the horse legit, such as the above commenter, you put in the time, the effort and you got the reward. Especially on the last day when it was probably looking pretty tight and you may have been giving up hope them *bam* there it was! That’s awesome! Why let what other people do diminish your own achievement?

    I can’t emphasize this enough (though it never seems to sink into anyone’s thick skull): this is a PvE game. NOTHING anyone else does will affect YOUR game whatsoever. Unless you let it, which technically is your attitude affecting your own game. The store-only Night Steed is one thing — everyone knows where that comes from. But you’d never know if someone paid for the Skeletal Steed or worked for it unless they told you, so what does it matter?

    Having made my points, I do feel it’s poor form to put the skeletal steed in the store so soon, especially after its’ means of acquisition was so time-consuming (though LOTRO is becoming quite well-known for its grindiness, sadly). One of the traditional aspects of MMOs have been some form of “rare” loot, and LOTRO is very traditional so it’s a shame marketing (do we blame WB or just Turbine?) is breaking the unwritten rules for things like this.

    • Dreadhed Says:

      I have to disagree. Yes this is a PvE game, but it is also a MMO. If your fellowing with others and they all have the Steed of Night and you have any horse that is not 168% speed. They have to wait for you. Running around doing the bounties and always being the last one to arrive. It affects you. Unless you live in a bubble and only solo, your argument to me fails to consider social dynamics and human nature inherrent in an MMO.

  17. Tony Says:

    Eh, buying Virtues doesn’t matter to me. There’s convenience in people getting it by clicking a button, but you can also grind it out if you want to. It’s readily available to get at any time if you felt like it. At the end of the day, it in no way affects me if someone grinded to 10 in a Virtue or bought to 10. If PvP was in place beyond the PvMP options, it might be more of an issue.

    I think getting rare items from the store is another story. I don’t really like that. But really, the main goals in this game don’t involve randomly winning some painted horse. They involve completing quests, getting to new areas, leveling up, perfecting your gear… and really, I don’t think many purchasable items have really detracted from that yet.

  18. Odium Says:

    I love the ” who cares what everybody else has ” line.

    Yes i understand that everybody having something i have doesnt take away what it took for me to get.

    Where do those people draw the line? A special horse or something else. This is only the begining. What if they let people buya lvl 65 character. Would be drop that stupid line then? What point is too far?

    If all you really care about is what u have then why play a mmo? Mmos to me are about getting items and such others dont have. We all are like that so dont pretend u dont care.

    What if u spend 3 months getting max tailoring and they sell it for $20? If you say you still wouldnt care then again why are u playing a mmo? Go play fallout or dragon age where only what u have or do matters.

    When you get gold in a mmo, do u give it all away when people beg? Probably not. But why not who cares what they have?

    It you were the only person in LOTRO would u still play? Umm no.

    If u say u play to play with others great. If u and u friends spend 4 hours raiding and u happen to get that really nice weapon do u want people to buy it the next day.

    The person above nailed it so well: WE ARE BEING FARMED!!

    • Dev Says:

      Wasn’t turbine against people buying stuff from gold farmers back in the day? I guess you just become what you most hate. Turbine/WB Games = corporate gold farmers.

    • lalaquen Says:

      Please don’t make sweeping generalizations. You say everyone cares what other people have or they wouldn’t play an MMO, but that isn’t true. One person may not make up any kind of significant majority, but I for one do not. I busted my butt to get my Supreme Master Farming, then they changed it – made it easier. Good for everyone else. I still know what I did, and I still feel nice about sticking it out and getting there. I do not, however, feel the need to go around wondering how anybody else got there, or in any other way let it diminish my enjoyment of the game or my feeling of accomplishment.

      I don’t play LotRO so I can feel special, or superior, or anything like that. I play it because I like Tolkein and I enjoy having the opportunity to experience Middle Earth for myself. Would I still play LotRO if I were the last/only person playing? Provided the game was set up sufficiently that I could solo everything, yes. In fact, I would probably be happier. I played WoW for about a year, but quit because the server I played on was full of jerks and I couldn’t reasonably keep playing by myself. My husband and I played LotRO for about a year before it went FTP, but had to stop subscribing because 1) we couldn’t afford it, and 2) constantly having to try and party up to do anything past about lvl 20 got old. Neither of us are incredibly social people. It’s cool when we meet someone interesting, but we would also both be completely happy if we could make a private server like you used to be able to do in WoW so that we could just muck about and have fun by ourselves or with our closest friends. We play Fallout, and Dragon Age, and Morrowind, and Oblivion, etc. etc. We also also play LotRO. We don’t play it for the online experience; in fact, the fact that LotRO is largely incidental for us. We play for the world and the lore and the story.

      When I see someone in town wearing something cool, do I still think wow, that’s awesome – maybe someday I’ll be able to get one? Sure. If I do get it and I see someone else wearing it do I feel cheated? No; that’s just stupid and childish. Generally I think something along the lines of “Hey cool, that person’s wearing the same thing I have. Neat.” if I notice it at all. Maybe I’m just not that competitive. Or maybe I just don’t understand what digital items I have or don’t have says about me as a person or anything like that.

      Either way, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and I can certainly respect yours. I just wish you wouldn’t automatically assume that everyone feels the same way you do.

      • Odium Says:

        Thank you for the well thought out post. You are right. I should not assume that every person playing LOTRO doesnt care about community and would play on a private shard alone with npcs. I WILL assume that you and the kind that think like you are in the minority.

        In fact, I would guess that if LOTRO shut down their servers but gave us each out own private shard to play on 95% of people would not play this game.

        The vast majority play this game for the community and such and achieving things in game is a big part of what makes most of us play.

        It is not childish at all to be a little upset if I worked for something that a company told me was hard to get and somebody else just bought it in the store. This goes beyond the horse by the way.

        Again, thanks and I understand where you are coming from but I just think you are in the minority.

        MMOs cater to the majority so they better figure this out or even an Online Middle Earth Shopping Mall will not save them.

    • Ganno Says:

      I agree with all but the lvl 65 character part, other than that all you say makes sense and there are many who feel the same and many who look at it as JJ down below does, when it comes to it the mmo meaning for many is just that, community and achieving something through time invested, kinda like working hard to lvl 40 back when lotro was new and having the gold to buy your first horse, it was a big deal cause you came so far, now you can have one before 10 and a standard by what is it now, 20?? Same thing with little things like this, sure they can make their money other ways and keep reputation an important part, who cares if it effects others or not, its the point that many who play this style of game find that part important, more than those who dont. Yes the horses look stiff, animations are ugly and the differences in stats and skins are no big deal its still bothersome to enough people and there are many many other ways they have to make money with all the restrictions on free players, and even all the restrictions on those who paid since launch and had to drop to premium. They just keep hitting sore spots but now that its free maybe its more about making the money from all the new players taking advantage of the free download and gameplay and less about listning to the community.

  19. Hobbitmeister Says:

    Like others, I have issue with Turbine putting this mount in the store. It’s the only rare drop we had ingame….well, until some greedy bastard went and ruined it. I guess I should have taken my warning from months ago…..all Turbine will see and hear from now on is $$CHA-CHING$$

    To Turbine I say,
    What’s next Turbine?? Maybe you should just go ahead and put in max level characters while you’re at it! You’re making me want to quit playing!

  20. Ed of Gladden Says:

    So it went from ‘rare’ to ‘impossible to get (seeing as the festival was over, and was anyone 100% certain it would return next year?)’ to ‘kinda costly’, which given the price point and the amount of “I refuse to buy XXXX on principle” players, still makes it a rare item.

    I don’t care how someone achieved getting an item or a title or SM tailor or level 65 if they did it in a way that is accessible to each player, given the inclination. Buy it from the store, farm a chest til you keel over, whatever. Should we complain this much when folks buy their class quest items with skirmish marks or off the AH? Player A got frequent flier miles from buying TP and getting a skeleton horse! Oh noes call the Feds, what cheaters!

  21. Ajay Says:

    Turbine is definitely pushing it when it comes to what is showing up in the store. I’m hoping they are still “getting the hang” of what should be in the store or not and still experimenting around. I imagine many, as seen here, are very against this.

  22. JJ Says:

    I think some people need to look at the advantage that people wasting their money on overpriced things in the store like cosmetic fluff and ingredient packs and piece-by-piece unlocking of VIP content. The business model turbine’s moving to is clearly one where playing as a premium is a perfectly viable full featured way to play the game. And it’s viable because some people spend stupid amounts of money in the store. There are stories of DDO players spending thousands of dollars on store items. We’re not quite there yet because you can’t get monster play (until Isengard), but with the recent change to swift travel (unlocked if you go from VIP -> premium), it’s already a viable option for current subscribers to stop paying their monthly subscription and use their saved free TPs (from in-game deeds or VIP perk) to buy any quest packs they want. You lose very little from doing this if you don’t do PvMP, literally only the minor destiny point perks if you’re at level cap (and even then you can buy most of the destiny point perks piecemeal with TPs if you REALLY want them).

    try seeing the store as an avenue for people to give Turbine more money and cross subsidise your game experience. Don’t get worked up about whether someone earned that horse by logging in 7 alts every day for 3 weeks or whether they spent $15 on it, just be happy that every horse sold in the store is effectively another month’s subscription that someone else has bought to subsidise your game experience. And if the only thing Turbine put in the store was stuff people didn’t want then you get no cross subsidy and the whole thing doesn’t work.

    Also all this scaremongoring about “ohhh, they’ll sell L65 chars next” is ridiculous. There’s a teensy, tiny difference between a poorly statted silly looking pony and a max level character. Slippery slope arguments are just lazy.

    • Grimbran Says:

      Amen JJ! You took the words right outta my mouth. The childish fear-mongering, poor-logic scare tactics, and wild exaggerations in here were making me sick.

      • Odium Says:

        There is no scare tactics here. Turbine just pulled the old bait and switch. Why work for anything when it could just show up in the store the next day?

        What you see as exaggerations are just people wanting to be heard. Trust me, if Turbine could they would charge for everything and make lots of $$$. As others have stated they have a duty to make $$$ and I am fine with that.

        What people are saying here, and all over the net in LOTRO places, is they WANT TO BE HEARD. We want Turbine to know when were are upset and when we are happy. How else are they supposed to know when to let up and when to push forward.

        I do think JJ makes a great point but do you really think that Turbine (WB now, lets not forget that) will say ok “Look at all the money we are making from silly people buying horses, we should make more great content for FREE”. No they will not. They will say “Wow, people will pay $15 for a horse skin, they will pay for anything we put out there”.

        I have let Turbine know how I feel. Whatever you feel, you should to.

  23. Scott Says:

    @Odium: If MMOs *to you* are about “getting items others don’t have” then by all means, play that way. Myself, I’ve been doing this enough to know there is NOTHING anyone has that I can’t have, it’s just a matter of whether I CHOOSE to pursue that particular item/goal or not. Everyone has the same classes, everyone gets to the same level cap, everyone crafts the same items, everyone gets the same rewards for the same quests/instances/raids. Oh, and there’s no Easter Bunny.

    If they start selling level-capped characters, fine by me. Maybe I’d buy one if I ever decide I want another alt since I only enjoy leveling my main anyway. I like my alts for specific reasons, and they are usually end-game reasons for me, so leveling them is just taking time away from what I wanted them for.

    Just like some people *choose* to be VIP or F2P, some people *choose* to PvMP or not, to raid or not, the Store is just offering another choice for how to acquire certain goals. For my main, I prefer to “work” for things and “earn” them the old-fashioned way. For an alt, I’d probably use the Store to skip. It’s my choice.

    And my choice doesn’t affect your game, or your choices, one iota.

    • Tony Says:

      What he said. And said earlier too.

      We’re in the same boat.

    • Odium Says:

      @Scott: MMOs are not about who has what toy to me. They are about what you have done to get those toys. If you worked for them then I will tip my hat to you as you walk by. If you bought them from the store the I will shake my head in shame.

      This is not about a horse. This is about the road Turbine is walking down. They are very 2 face when it comes to the store. They try the old mmo tactic of “this is great, all you need is time, luck, or skill to get it”. Then everybody gets excited and goes out into the world to get it done. The next month it is in the store. So they say “well, just in case you didnt have enough time, skill, or luck you can pay us to have that item you want so bad.”

      I think it is hilarious that you believe your choice won’t affect the rest of us. It will just as my choice will affect you. This is an MMO. We are all in this together. Look at just this page. You appear to be in the minority in your thinking. You may be happy paying $15 for a horse but if the majority leaves the game because of the way Turbine is doing this, then what? Would you play alone in LOTRO? Would you be happy paying $30 for that same horse because they arent making any other $$ from the rest of us.

      Let’s say that Turbine really does come out with a max lvl character in the store. I really dont think they will do that but lets pretend. The whole argument I hear for the store from Turbine and the “yes sir” crowd is this: “Some people dont have the time, skill, or patience to do stuff so we put an option in the store for them”. So why stop at horses, virtues, or anything else? It take time, skill, and patience to lvl a character. Just buy one. If you cannot see what is so wrong about buying a maxed out character then I don’t even know what to say.

      I love LOTRO and I only am here now not playing 1 of 20 other games I could be playing with my time because I want it to be better and done right.

      I respect your opinion and I value this discussion becuase I feel an open debate can only make things better.

  24. Thaxo Says:

    What irritates me the most is all the time I wasted trying to get that dang horse (which I didn’t). If I would have known I could buy it later I would have skipped going back to that dumb chest every day. Having two young kids, time that I can spend playing is a precious commodity. They could have given us a heads-up that this horse will be available sometime later so we could choose to grind to have it early or just get it later. I know that I don’t “need” the horse but collecting the mount skins is one of the things that makes the game fun for me.

    What I would like to see them do is turn things around a bit. Make the steed of night available in game as a new rep mount, meta-deed, rare drop or something. This will irritate the people that paid for it but it would give something back to the people that like to play the game for things.

  25. Harperella Says:

    I totally understand the players who feel gipped after having worked and worked for this rare drop. But I think this is how a cash shop works. Basically, they provide you with short-cuts with all the in-game grind. Shortcuts to virtues, shortcuts to XP, shortcuts to crafting, and now shortcuts to festival mounts–even super rare ones. They’ve also wanted to give us short-cuts to reputation rewards (rep mounts) short-cuts to end-game content (uber heal potions). Those last two have been soundly rebutted by the community.

    Given the rules we’ve agreed to with the store this mount is perfectly in line. Its a cosmetic item available in-game through a long grind, or via a $15 purchase. Someone mentioned we are being farmed, and we are… but we are also learning. You won’t find me working too hard for any item I suspect may show up in the store later. I’d rather pay the $15 than spend 5-6 hours checking a chest for a special drop. And so yes, I’m their target market.

    A feeling has been gnawing on me of late. Achievements in an MMO have always been rather ephemeral. But they are now becoming transparent. What can I say I’ve really accomplished in this game? If I got this horse in-game, I can say I’ve saved $15 by checking a chest 5 times a day every day for 4 weeks. Whoop de doo! Putting a price on these little touches makes us reevaluate how much those little touches are _really_ worth. And I’m finding they are worth less than I thought.

    –Harperella

    • n0name28 (Ranni) Says:

      But don’t you think the way they say one thing and then turn on it is getting a bit much? Why should we ‘suspect’ that something is going to turn up in the store when they’ve proclaimed it as ‘rare’? They are a for profit business, absolutely and as it should be. But to advertise something as, for example, ‘rare’, so that people will jump to purchase it, just to turn around and put it in the store for a long time? That smacks of deceit to me. It shakes the trust I had in them right to the core.

      I get the need to increase profit but I don’t get why they have to pull stunts like this. If something is going to be termed ‘rare’ it shouldn’t be made readily available for everyone whenever they chose to purchase it. If it’s said that nothing game changing/effecting (don’t remember how it was worded) will be in the store, then stick to it. They’ve gone back on so much that they said wouldn’t happen … it’s getting unreal.

      This isn’t really about the Steed of Night or the Skeleton Horse, or even the virtues. It’s about decisions that fly in the face of customer confidence rather than inspiring that confidence and trust. They’re trying to build a profit but the way they’re going at it, I just don’t get. There are many roads you can take to get to where you want to go, but to kick us (me, if ‘us’ is to broad) in the teeth with more broken promises/statements is wrong. It’s hard to feel invested in a company that can’t keep their word.

    • Duncan B. Says:

      I agree that I think part of this is Turbine understanding the F2P model and how to best make things work. There needs to be a way to keep cash flowing that isn’t always coming from subscriptions.

      So, the players have options. They can either earn things in game with time, or they can get them out of game int he store for cash. Its the economics of time versus money.

      People are feeling cheated because they expected that the things they spent time obtaining held value and uniqueness that couldn’t be obtained otherwise.

      It seems like Turbine needs to find a way to strike a balance on what is only obtainable in the game,and what is available in the store.

  26. Ivaneus Says:

    Wow, this looks exactly like every single thread asking for changes/improvements to Monster Play ever!

    Welcome to the “party”?

    Now in all honesty, I had thought that Turbine was releasing the Steed of the Night in order to not put the Skeleton horse on the store for at least half a year. Instead, it looks like they were just double dipping.

    /le sigh

  27. Aranglor Says:

    Im in the verge of stopping playing this game

    I really don’t like the direction we are going

  28. darkannex Says:

    Harperella brings up the same points I feel (but ever so much eloquently). I was supportive of the Steed of Night. I totally did not like putting rep mount skins in the store unaltered, but I was okay with the holiday painted horse. I am more than a bit miffed that the festival mount from 09 is now exclusive to the store.

    More and more, I find my interest in Lotro waning. It’s starting to not feel like the world you live in, but more like a ‘here today, gone tomorrow, buy now!’ minigame.

    I am not saying Turbine do this, or don’t do that – they’re going to do what they want-this is very apparent. I’m just rapidly losing interest to see ‘what’s next’.

  29. Beorthain Says:

    boo

  30. Tony Says:

    I think of it kind of like this… I can either bake some sugar cookies or buy them already made.

    Maybe no one would know the difference, but I’d probably think the ones I baked tasted better. I still put the time into it and I’m sure there are people out there who know it.

    But my friend buying those sugar cookies doesn’t really hurt the enjoyment of my own. They’re just different avenues for the same thing. I guess you could take that to extremes. The second I see something like “buy a level” or “buy reputation points” directly in the store I’ll be pissed. I just am not seeing that so far.

    I don’t feel like I’m in the majority and I certainly respect other people’s viewpoints on this… but personally I think most of the stuff on the store has been pretty fair. People have their chances to get 99.9% of the stuff while playing.

    Personally if I were in that camp I’d be happy I didn’t blow another $15 on something I can’t ever sell lol

  31. Halibrand Says:

    All they had to do was take the model and change the skin from black to brown. That’s it. We’re talking a few minutes work to create the new item, copy over the old item, and change the one colour on it. They’d sell just as many, maybe even a few more (to the people already having the original model,) and then there wouldn’t be this horribly icky taste in our mouths about how a Super-Special-Super-Rare Limited Edition item just got thrown in with next month’s Happy Meals.

    For this reason, I 100% side with everyone that is disgruntled about this. I don’t oppose the cash shoppe, or Turbine being creative that way. But several minutes work from one employee would have preserved a lot of peoples’ feelings. It would have been polite.

    Turbine was a bad boyfriend on this one.

  32. Elanhdria Says:

    I dont care whats in the store personally, it doesnt effect my fun in any way, but what erks me the most about this is… Turbine makes a new mount thats extreamly rare, with the ability to only get it for 2 weeks(ish)… THEN put it in the store for 15bux…to take advantage of the people who didnt get it… sounds like a big scam to me… i know they have to make money, but soem things just shouldnt be in the store

    It pretty dirty if you ask me

  33. Ed of Gladden Says:

    Does anyone remember when the Hauberk of Glory was added to the store? I’ve found a couple of threads on the forums (and on the Codemasters forums), but they seemed to be short lived, and fell into nothing rather quickly. No great outpouring then. It might be due to the Hauberk only being 195.

    Does anyone even remember what the Hauberk of Glory is/was? I’ve been playing LOTRO since launch, but apparently I was sick during the Armathiel Attacks! week.

    The horse doesn’t look that great. It has weak stats. It wasn’t worth my time during the Festival, and it’s not worth my money now. It’s also not worth questioning the value of everything you or the people around you have done in the game. Save your hat tips and shakes of shame.

  34. Branick Says:

    Argh! I was so hoping this wouldn’t happen. Really Turbine? All that time I spent logging in with 7 characters every day for a stupidly rare chance to finally get the drop on one on my alts after weeks of trying was worth nothing? That’s like playing a slot machine for weeks to finally win a new car, only to return home to find that everyone who didn’t bother got the same car with no effort or time spent. Seriously? You value our time so little? If you can’t tell, I’m pretty steamed about this one… Grrrrrr.

  35. Calaham Says:

    This is just the same thing that thy have been doing really… De-valuing what people earned. First, they put the Jewelled Bell in the lotteries, then they put Rep Horse unique designs in the store, and now this…

  36. Scott Says:

    Exactly, I’m more “upset” (inasmuch as I allow myself to get “upset” over a game anymore) at Turbine / WB / marketing / whomever changes their minds about things *so damn quickly* that it’s difficult to trust anything they say when it comes to what will or will not be in the Store. I know a lot of the LOTRO team (or at least the original team) has some old-school members and would hope they would see the value in keeping some old-school values when it comes to rare in-game items, but perhaps that is just a pipe dream at this point in time.

    Regardless, I play the way I want, store or no store. I bring my own values to the table with my characters and my playtime. I couldn’t care less what anyone else does with their playtime or their money because it has no bearing on mine.

    @Tony: Even Warhammer lets players “buy levels” now, and that’s a PvP game. Though with the tiers, any given level doesn’t affect things all that much. Some people might want it if they would rather pay to get to Tier 4 RvR versus playing. It’s their choice, their money, their time, and their particular goal they are satisfying with whichever choice they make. Doesn’t bother me.

    @Odium: If you’d have asked me a few years ago, I’d have been “upset” over the notion of buying a level-capped character. But I’ve been around the block and played too many MMOs over the years. It just doesn’t matter. Mind you, my personal preference is a requirement that the buyer has leveled one character legitimately before being able to purchase a capped character, but in the end it doesn’t matter — it’s all about player choice. People say you have to level the character to learn it, yet how many level-capped characters have we all (or do I just have bad luck?) grouped with in various MMOs whose player doesn’t have a clue what they’re doing. Competent players can learn a class quickly, incompetent players won’t. It doesn’t matter whether the character itself was leveled or not — the player behind the character is what matters in that regard.

    The ’08 Yule Steed in the Store? I’m ok with that as long as there is still *some* way (in-game or Store) for players to get older mounts if they really want them. I have the ’08 mount but skipped the ’09 one because it was identical, just a slight color change of the blanket and not worth my time or silver (and certainly not worth my TP). I’ve missed several festivals in Guild Wars over the years due to work and I’ve always wished they would eventually put older masks for sale, but they never have. So, I can see both sides of Odium’s argument of things being “special” to you. In GW, I have some items no one else can ever get, and some players have items I can never get, no matter what. On the one hand you pat yourself on the back for what you did get, but on the other, it’s a real bummer you can never, under any circumstance, get the other thing you still want.

  37. Telantarin Says:

    I am deeply angry about this. The only reason to try to get the Skeletal Horse for me was to have earned a thing as rare as it was. Nothing else. Now there is nothing left. In WOW, there are items beeing unique in the hole universum. I would really like to see that in Lotro because uniqueness is one really good reason for long time player to stand by. With millions of players playing Lotro, uniqueness is a great value for me.
    Its like in real life: Would you wear your clothes if eyery third people out there have the same look? No Sir. But you would spend efford (weeks of work) in getting money to buy some clothes more unique. And then think about someone selling your new outfit for just a few cents, making it possible to buy your new outfit for the effort of working just an hour. Would anyone spend the same efford (working weeks – aka playing lotro for weeks) for just another dress?
    Some may, some not and if the ‘not’ are in majority, the game will die.

    Besides that: What have Lotro, what others don’t have? Middleearth! But i can’t remember Tolkien telling a story about painted horses running through Eriador.
    It was fine for me, that the Skeletal Horse was a very rare item, so chances are not to meet to many of them ingame, breaking the atmosphere. Maybe that is just my problem…

    • Strunto Says:

      You know, your comment actually made me think of this in an angle I hadn’t quite thought of before.

      Wealthy women pay top dollar to buy designer handbags. A few months later, though, or as soon as the next series of bags are released, you can buy those exact same handbags for considerably less. Has the inherentt value of the bag changed? No. But the temporary prestige of having the newest and the hippest is gone. That’s what those women are paying for.

      This situation is a little different, I guess. But not really. It’s the same item (the horse). The conditions for receiving it are a little different. The momentary prestige is gone.

      Until next season.

  38. Tadgo of Landroval Says:

    I got 3 of the skelly horses during the festival. I’ll still use it on my 2 lower level toons until I grind elf rep on them. Won’t use it on my main anymore. I have the elf rep horse and I’m getting close on world rep.

  39. cirocco Says:

    I worked my furry toes off to finally on the last day luck out and draw one of those skeleton horses, I was very happy, it made my day. I remember then someone posting a comment to not worry that they would just plop it in the store in a month or two and lo and behold that is just what they did.

    harumph. The good news is that I got to save the tokens for it.

    But that brings me to the main point, I think they shouldn’t offer in the store skins for mounts earned thru rep, or for rare drops, that beats the whole purpose of them, a rare reward for those that had the luck or worked for the prize.

    As for making money and keeping the game open, there are a million and one things they could put on the market instead, how bout more housewares, more dresses, they could design a diff looking horse for that matter.

    Enough, it’s to the point where one has to say ‘why grind for an item if you can just wait a mo’ it will be in the store later on’.

  40. Sandbur Says:

    I have no opinion about whether buying “essentials” in the store is good or bad (like stats, or the highest-stat horses): my only concern is that for the very first time something in the game felt like it jumped the shark. In this instance, horse collecting.

  41. Droxine Says:

    Seems like it’s trying to equalize between lucky, special, and well-funded. You can be lucky (pull it out of a chest) and even “special” (notoriety for a short time) but you’re not going to be both Lucky and Special at the same time for long.

    I know that I pulled the Rattlebones out of a chest. I really don’t care how someone else got theirs. I had a month of being “lucky and special”. I’m still lucky because I didn’t have to pay for it. But special isn’t going to last–and really who wants to be special every single day anyway? Personally I feel “well-funded” for saving myself the $15/1500TP for something else. But I don’t begrudge the guy or girl who likes the pixels and wants to wear/ride them. Whatever their motivation is, I hope it works.

    One of the posters had it right, if it keeps the game going and doesn’t impact my ability to enjoy it (unlike glff chat) I’m fine with Turbine making the $$$cha-ching$$$.

    Cheers,
    Drox

  42. Duns Says:

    I logged on every day on 8 characters and got the horse on two… namely the chars I didn’t want it on. That’s the luck of the draw. And that’s just it. It had no skill involved, it was pure blind luck. And many, many people weren’t as lucky.

    I don’t begrudge these people the right to buy the horse they desperately wanted for actual money rather than wait a year and not get it then either. A lot of people didn’t even want the horse that bad (like me for my alts) and yet still tried the chests anyway– free horse design, who wouldn’t? And some of those people won the horse, and don’t like it and don’t use it, no matter how ‘rare’ it is. In fact, I won’t be buying the horse, not even on the alts I felt it suited, because I really don’t want it bad enough at all, and never did.

    I don’t feel placing it in the store cheapens it. It was pure luck. No skill. People are acting as if the whole world is getting it for free now, and that’s not it. Not everyone will buy it. Keep in mind someone would need to fork out more than a month’s worth of game time just to get the horse. Keep in mind these people keep FTP going. Personally, if they really want it bad enough to drop that kind of money for it then more power to them; I don’t care.

    Why do people care so much, though? Is it because their horse will cease being ‘special’ now? Uniqueness is a poor, petty factor in my opinion. It’s a fancy word for elitism. I’m better than you because I have a horse no one else can ever get anymore. I’m better than you because I have things you can’t get. I hate this mentality. I remember running by the Haunted Burrow and seeing people just sitting there on their skeleton horse outside the entrance. Seemingly for no reason. It was more than just once or twice, but ALL the time. It was like they wanted attention?Just someone standing their showing off their horse. I didn’t like this. I didn’t like these people. And some of them are the ones that are most upset now. I have no real sympathy. There are thousands of ways to be unique in lotro now. Thousands of outfit combination’s. Dozens of horses. I rarely see my horse by used any more thanks to the myriad of designs out there.

    I personally care more about the rep designs being made available because that involves actual work and time and effort to obtain rather than the luck of the draw. Also the community spoke about the rep horses and decided they did not want them available in the store, and Turbine cheated by making the rep horses ‘better/different’ when in reality it’s the same design but just sturdier. It’s a cop out and a weak one. Same with the war horse. Either make it limited or don’t. But don’t pretend it’s one thing when it’s the other.

    But caring about the overrated skeleton horse? Not so much.

    • Branick Says:

      I can’t speak for everyone, but the reason I care is because the only reason I saw for having the horse was it’s rarity. Yes it was luck. That’s the point. It’s not that it’s free now, or that lots of people will buy it. If just one person buys it, the horse no longer means what it once did. In fact, just it being in the store has already taken away the sole appeal of the horse, whether anyone actually buys it or not. It’s not about feeling better than anyone. It’s just that the sole appealing factor the horse had was it’s rarity as a lucky drop. Take that away and it’s just a dumb-looking novelty horse with a broken leg.

  43. Grimbran Says:

    I get a good laugh at people that reference getting this skeletal horse with “working hard to get it” and the “prestige” of having it. I hate to burst anyone’s bubble, but there was no work involved at all. It was a pure-luck rare drop with no time or skill or grind required to access the slot-machine-chest. With an extreme *minimal* effort, you could park your characters next to it and pull the handle once a day to see if you got jackpot. Do I feel any awe whatsoever at the people that have them? No. I just shrug and think “they got lucky”, and that’s all it is. Will that change with it being available for people to buy it in the store? Not really. Just adds “or they paid for it”.

    I actually felt good for it being in the store once I thought it through. There are a lot of collectors who play this game and I felt bad that they would have virtually no chance at all to get the mount for their mount-collecting character.(people were lucky to even get one on a random character per server.) And as JJ posted earlier, it gets Turbine more money, which keeps this game I love running and producing more content.

    Rep mounts being in the store I’m a little less thrilled about. Since that’s a thing you get for working hard to impress an in-game RP faction. Hopefully they wont sell the meta-deed or multi-faction mounts in the store.

  44. Pieladywing Says:

    So very pleased about two things here. One that this discussion exists. And most importantly….have you read the inane drivel and semi-literate comments in so many forums online? One of the things I have most enjoyed about LOTRO is the level of intelligence of the players and the lack of horrid interpersonal dramas combined with a really fun and complex game.

    Reading the amazing posts here, both pro and con just makes me want to stay even more. I can play the game in any manner I wish, and do (my minstrel is a bad healer who likes to kill LOL). I can buy or gind….but look at the cool people I get to do it with EITHER way!

    • Mike of Arkenstone Says:

      70 comments so far and only one off topic! :)

      I agree with you Pieladywing. I really enjoy reading comments on CSTM.

      I hung out in the Haunted Cellar for the entire festival and I did not get the horse. It was fun. I now have hundreds of festival tokens. People in my kin would announce they were going to try for the horse and they would be asked if they got the horse. It worked as an event in the game. It kept the festival fresh for weeks.

      I don’t think they should put the skeleton-steed in the store. I think it will reduce the fun factor for the next special event. After all this was designed to be a item that everyone would not get.

  45. Thandain Says:

    Personally I do not think that Turbine should put any mounts in the store, but if they really have to, then I would want them to have only store-exclusive horses because the ones in game take a lot of work to get and being able to buy them for around $20 (even with the lower health and stats) is just cheapening them imho.

    Concerning the Skeleton Steed, all I have to say is: “/ROAR”. After only getting one skeleton horse out of 315+ tries, and on my lvl 15 cappy who I don’t play too much… I think that this is just almost a slap in the face of anyone who spent the entire festival trying to get this horse. I am sensing bad things coming from this store in the future… but I guess I’ll have to live with it and take my anger out on mobs in-game.

  46. Dev Says:

    I am probably in the minority. I actually don’t mind items in the store. Well, I do, but as I have been sitting here thinking and thinking about it over the last few days, it’s not because they are there.

    I mind the ones that are store exclusives. I mind the imbalance of those store exclusives. For example, as a VIP I would pay about $10 a month to play and get 500 points. This gives me an idea of the approximate value of the turbine points.
    The steed of night was roughly 2k points, which would be 4 months of play and $40. For the people who have played the game up to now, paying $10 or $15 every month, leveled characters, and completed TONS of deeds that were not retroactively awarded, it seems financially unfair.

    And I disagree with the “shortcut” to rewards. I always said, and others agreed in beta forums, offer any reward item you want, but make it a requirement to have done the content to buy it.

    We were talking in chat the other night about these “shortcuts” and advantages, and someone brought up a very good point. Sure the steed may just be a fluff cosmetic and not offer an advantage…oh wait, it does. Imagine a level 5 person who bought the riding skill, and threw twenty-five bucks down for that mount – one of the THREE fastest and toughest in the game. Now, not every player is able to purchase that steed. (Yes it’s avalable, but so is a Lamborghini. Doesn’t mean everyone can afford it.) So your level 5 and another level 5 who bought it are running around Breeland, crafting. Remember node ninjas? Yeah, now you don’t stand a chance. The level 5 steed owner, rep horse owner, or whatever will run past, not get knocked off of their horse with more hp than they have, and get to every node before you. It’s a very “convenient” tool for gold farmers. But that is just a flaw in the system, and really more an annoyance, imho.

    Really, I’ve given up on the imbalance argument. Having a store at all will throw a bit of imbalance in, just par for the course.
    HOWEVER….I do think that the store items should never be exclusive to the store. The store should ADD options for players, not take them away. I will yell that across rooftops until someone hears me. I think all players deserve the option to obtain reward items in the game through gameplay.
    And SoN is a reward item. It goes towards the “we’ll never offer gear” statement they made. Gear is just a cosmetic item with stats. Guess what the SoN is?
    Some argue that the skirmish system is the same as the store, grinding content skirmish/deeds for the rewards. It’s not. I had to play the content to get something. In the store, I just had to use a credit card, if I have one.
    If people want to be able to just buy rewards, fine. I give up on that, but players should also be able to obtain the same items in the game. They initially said that it would work that way. “Nothing will be in the store that isn’t also attainable in the game.”
    This just makes me very, very sad about a game I spent 4 years testing, paying for, and playing. And yes, no retroactive deed completion points does make me feel a bit shafted, but I could deal if they would just make all the items in the store drop in the game.
    Meh. I’ll stop now. I’m literally talking to the wall. Those who agree will always agree, and those who don’t will never see the light.

  47. Rekkyr Says:

    Hopefully my opinion isn’t devalued because I’m not a VIP.
    I am, however, a premium member and swipe my credit card through
    their servers every now and again. As a former City of Heroes and a
    WoW subscriber I actually prefer the a la carte system, as it
    affords me more control of what aspects of the game I choose to buy
    into. I wound up finding the Skeletal Steed on a character I no
    longer play and was wishing there was some way to transfer it to my
    main character. Now I have the option of purchasing it on my main,
    so needless to say I’m pleased to see it offered in the store. The
    Pay to Play concept is the future of MMORPGs, and LOTRO does it
    best. Perhaps a compromise could be to award titles alongside items
    that are acquired in game to differentiate them from similar items
    purchased in the furling store.

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  1. LOTRO Lottery for the Skeleton Steed | A Casual Stroll to Mordor - January 5, 2011

    [...] caused quite a stir when it appeared in the LOTRO Store and if you miss out on tomorrow’s lottery you should be reminded that Thursday is the last day to [...]