Warden Fixes Coming Soon

March 13, 2012

General

Yesterday, Orion dropped by the Warden Forums to inform the community about upcoming fixes to the class that would be coming in a “hotfix style update” hopefully within “10 days times” of his posting.  The fixes that are currently scheduled for this update include:

  • War-cry: The bonus threat associated with the skill will be returning with the hotfix.
  • Battle Preparation: Battle Prep will be dispelled with Gambit usage, as it should be.
  • Boar’s Rush: This will no longer have a chance to stun in all stances.
  • Adroit Manoeuvre and Reversal (Ranged): Will now correctly load into Battle Memory. There are a few other skills that need to be updated – those will be fixed in a later patch.
  • Shield Gambit Buff Duration Legacy: This will now work on all associated buffs from that line. There are some exceptions – threat reduction chief among those exceptions.

Several other fixes that may or may not make it into the “hotfix-like” update are:

  • Defiant Challenge: Will increase your mitigation.
  • Conviction Healing Legacy: Returned to the being a benefit to healing.

So while bugs are frustrating with any major revamp there are bound to be more.  Orion states very openly that he apologizes for these fixes and I for one am willing to cut him a break.  But no matter how you feel about it, a possible patch in 10 days to fix some of the known issues sounds like a good thing.

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About Merric

Co-founder of CSTM and an avid LOTRO fan.

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28 Responses to “Warden Fixes Coming Soon”

  1. Anon Says:

    It should be noted that while he doesn’t state it outright, he strongly hints that it was management that caused Update 6 to be released when it was, with all these known Warden bugs. Orion’s mollified the forumgoers somewhat by explaining though.

    Reply

  2. Ardin E. Says:

    I am infinitely more willing to give him some slack than almost all other devs. He is more than hard working – he is also honest and transparent with his updates. He is the model so many others should be following at Turbine. I trust what he says. He doesn’t use words like “misleading” when he means “we intentionally wanted you to think otherwise because it benefits us” and seems to take pride in his work.

    Reply

  3. darkeye Says:

    It’s a bit of a disaster really, even if skills work right, the tooltips are so poor that working out what the new skills are supposed to do requires the player to go to comb the patch notes and the blogs, and even then the details in those have likely changed between then and now (ex. where are all the Lifetaps recklessness is supposed to get, oh they are in the fist line but only happen on criticals, the tooltips have no mention of this). Assailment stance and gambits are only half finished, dumb things like minimum range and some ‘ranged’ gambits requiring melee range. It is poor planning, design decisions not ‘management’ wanting to get the update out the door. Assailment should never have happened, instead making Warden’s Triumph and Adroit Manoeuvre’s equivalent to Anthem of War and War-Cry respectively would have had a better outcome with much less work for creating a desirable secondary role in raids. The class is now too complicated, more than ever before, and that’s reason enough to not recommend it to anyone.

    Reply

  4. Varia of Riddermark Says:

    Yeah War-cry threat! I spent yesterday roaming the countryside trying to un-train muscle memory. Glad to have an old friend back. A war Cry that doesn’t generate threat seems like it is misnamed.

    I haven’t tried recklessness or assailment yet. I’ve been having too much fun being beaten on and watching the improved self-heals. A little disappointed they are going to stance limit the BR stun.

    So far I like the update and the region, but I am noticing alot of typographic bugs in tool tips and vendors, rings that don’t have a quest person or even, rings that don’t fade out and misplaced geometry. The rushed feel of Isengard is apparent here as well.

    I am thankful to the devs, but hope for their sake and ours that Turbine management is taking pages from the EA playbook.

    Reply

  5. GiantsFan Says:

    Can I say that I’m personally tired of all the attention the warden class seems to get? I’ve never rolled one because if I wanted to tank I played a guardian, and if I wanted to dps, I played a hunter or a champ. These hybrid classes are too wonky for me, and yet it seems that they (the wardens particularly IMO) are always being focused upon in the updates. And they seem to make the most noise on the forums and the chat rooms.

    Reply

    • Gilgalain Says:

      Well then why are you saying something here if you feel Wardens aren’t worth looking at? Just because you don’t play one that’s fine, but there are plenty of us out there who do, and we’d appreciate it if you’d keep your negative, unhelpful comments to yourself…

      Reply

    • A Mighty Wyn Says:

      “Can I say that I’m personally tired of all the attention the warden class seems to get, *recently?” *Fixed.

      For the longest time, the class was largely put in a corner, so if we’ve been getting a lot of attention recently, it’s because it’s overdue.

      P.S.-The Warden isn’t a Hybrid class. It’s a Tanking class. The fact that people like you still don’t think we are tanks, is more than enough proof that this attention is needed.

      P.P.S.-Nobody puts Wadens in a corner!

      -Wyn

      Reply

      • mmicnova Says:

        i(RK) was in fangorn’s edge yesterday with a warden and a mini. at the first crossing, right at the beginning, mini pulled a bunch of uruks by mistake and died. i stayed on dps. warden held aggro of all the group with his health bar hardly moving. a whole group. i couldn’t believe it. we didn’t wipe, we killed them one by one.
        i used to play a guardian as a main up until about 3 months ago. i’ve seen wardens tank draigoch better, i’ve seen dragons soloing talug in fil gashan, among many other bosses. i have nothing but respect for this class and for the guys who know how to play it. and that’s coming from a “proper” tank ;)

        Reply

    • Adanorod Says:

      Also keep in minds that we were broken. Actually we were beyond broken. We got a ton of attention because we needed it the most. If whatever class(es) you play was broken, then you would want to get a lot of attention to fix the problem(s) that the class had. It is just unlucky that the wardens had the most problems.

      Reply

  6. Windpaw Says:

    After reading some of Orion’s comments – you can definitely tell he wasn’t happy that Turbine pushed Update 6 when they did.

    Reply

  7. mephet Says:

    I’d love to see a noob’s guide to the warden changes come up on the forums or on this site. The tooltips atm seem to be in a bit of a mess, and all the information is spread out so that a level 40 casual like me finds it a little difficult to get up to speed with all these rapid changes.

    Reply

    • Obs1 Says:

      I agree, I am a casual warden player and the new changes seem like a complicated mess to my initial look. I need a guide. Actually, I would like more streamlining for what looks like unnecessary and awkward complication in both the changes and the interface.

      One example: Why are they making us go to the trainer and get “javelin” versions of all the gambits having spears? It adds a ton of basically redundant gambits to our gambit list, making it more awkward to view/remember and a pain to scroll through them. You only need to list one spear/javelin gambit for each (maybe changing the spear icon to a javelin icon depending on your stance?).

      These warden changes only look half finished, in a test stage still, like they were never consolidated and polished. And I still dont get why all these changes were even desired; the class seemed fine as it was. Much simpler fixes could have been done for known shortcomings.

      Reply

    • darkeye Says:

      There should be three new things available at your level, several new skills available from trainer:

      1) Masteries, when you trait 4 deep in a traitline you’ll get access to 4 new buttons that help build gambits quickly instead of [Sp][Sh}[Fi], you can build the same gambit [Sp-Sh][Fi] or [Sp][Sh-Fi].

      2) Potency, using [Sp][Sp] or [Sh][Sh] or [Fi][Fi] (100% chance when traited 4 deep) gives the warden a buff that the next gambit used is stored to the ‘battle memory’ skill you buy from the trainer. This stored skill can be used whenever you want.

      3) Battle preparation, usually you need to have a target and be in combat to build a gambit, this skill is a short buff that lets you build gambits before a fight.

      To get a feel for the changes, buy the skills, trait 4 deep in spear traitline, and use recklessness stance and try this sequence:

      [Sp][Sh][Fi] Power attack, build this skill as normal
      [Sp-Sp] You should get this button at the trainer, it will give you the potency buff
      [Sp-Sh] [Fi-Sp] two mastery buttons to build Mighty Blow, MB does extra damage because of the power attack bleed
      The battle memory button should have Mighty Blow stored, which you can use right away. That should kill most mobs or use [Sp][Sh] to finish off.

      Reply

    • Adanorod Says:

      I am going to write a guide for my kin shortly: I might send it to the CSTM folks if I feel it is good enough.

      Reply

  8. Signard Says:

    I have a lvl 35 Warden, well now lvl 36 and had some fun today “adjusting” to the changes. I didn’t know anything about the masteries and was quite confused about the Sp-X masteries being grey for me (now I know that my traits have to be set up appropriately). The determination and recklessness stances seem to lead to a play style that I am used to. The assailment stance was very weird however. It seemed like I would constantly end up with a melee gambit after executing ranged builders (I had trained all the new skills and gambits). I know the Warden is supposed to be an advanced class, but the current Warden as ranged DPS seems to require like a Ph.D. in Lotro. Not quite sure what you are supposed to do when enemies close to melee range on a warden in ranged mode. Run away?… Not very warden-like.

    I was a little upset about losing some of my gambits due to increased level requirements, but this is a fairly minor issue.

    Reply

  9. Ervelos Says:

    Hey guys,

    I have never posted anything on the forums or on this site before. And its the first time in 5 years of lotro that I feel like I need to share my opinion about a class. (I actually feel a bit weird about this) I had many “mains” over the years and I would not call myself a Warden Veteran. I levelled it up to 65 just before RoI came out and I had a Guard (Rift days), Captain (Moria days) and Burglar (BG and OD days) before.

    There are many stories about what Wardens can and can not do, pre RoI, post RoI and post U6. I have been tanking tier 2 Orthanc stuff on my Warden and we are just a casual bunch and no fancy raiding kin to be honest, but U6 was the first time I felt broken.

    I can solo stuff that isnt even imaginable for most classes, but I really struggle keeping the agro of a single mob when our dpsers go for it. And I am not reliant on aggression. I have tried out many, many gambit combinations.

    I endured the squishiness even in Orthanc tier 2, but I will not endure the lack of threat now we actually can survive stuff for very long…..

    Sorry for the wall of text!

    Keep your shields up and good luck!
    Ervelos

    Reply

  10. Black Llama Says:

    I rolled my Warden about 2 weeks ago so as a new player (I’ve only been in game for about 4 months) it’s a bit confusing. I was starting to get used to playing the class before the update (I was in the low 20′s) Now it feels like I need to relearn a lot of what I thought I was getting right. I have been able to run a few instances (low level stuff) after the patch, and was even able to solo a tier 2 skirmish with my herbalist…..

    My RK on the other hand is now a slaughtering machine. Even at level 47 I was running mobs solo with ease :D

    Reply

  11. Eleasar Says:

    Hope all the bugs of the minstrel are getting fixed soon as well

    Reply

  12. Tired Old Warden Says:

    I feel bad for new players who roll a Warden. The class should carry a disclaimer on the Character Creation Screen:

    WARNING – This class is in Perepetual Beta.

    The only constant of the class from when I started playing it over a year ago is that there are these things called “Gambits” that make you have to press a lot of keys to get anything done. “What the keys actually do” comes and goes, but having to press a lot of them, that stays the same…

    Reply

  13. Damsadan Says:

    does anyone else have the Fi-Fi gambit builder bugged to look like another tooltip picture? or does your Sp-Sh gambit builder only add Sp when you activate battle preperations? just some minor bugs I found

    Reply

  14. Andy Says:

    Gave my warden a try out post patch and dont like having to stance dance between ranged and melee while soloing due to a min range mechanic. And the power regen for the melee stance is utter rubbish if the tooltip is right. Strange things going on in tanking stance so shelved them again for the time being.

    Most annoying bug I’ve found is that if you alt tab while on a taxi mount the thing stops dead sometimes, or the swift travel decides to go the oddest ways to arrive at the end point. Worst occasion of this bug was when it almost killed me by riding through the freezing water up at suri kyla in forochel instead of using the bridge.

    Reply

  15. Evarden Says:

    I had hoped that the fixes that came with U6 would have mad things better, but as it stands now, the warden class is still broken. Some things have been made better but the complexity has gone way up. I’m a reasonably intelligent guy but I can’t keep track of all the gambits that are now different in different stances. Some gambits don’t work in some stances and some only work in melee range while others only work at a distance. The complexity is to the point where I can’t effectively contribute to a group. In fact I am more of a liability. I hate to say it but I’m going to have to shelve my warden and work on another class.

    Reply

  16. mephet Says:

    What I’ve grown to find annoying is that I have to keep switching between stances. Previously I could just stay in Determination as I leveled (which would give me some extra survivability) and focus on offensive gambits, while throwing in the occasional self-heal and leech if things started to go a bit worse. Now I can’t really seem to self heal while in an offensive stance, or deal damage effectively while in a defencive stance. :( And I’m completely confused over the fist line now. Is it threat? Is it ranged? Is it both?

    Reply

    • Evarden Says:

      The “fist” line is now the “ranged” line (I know the icon hasn’t changed) and is supposed to give you decreased threat when you execute gambits. However I can’t really test it out with the minimum range on the gambits I end up switching out of the stance when the mob runs into melee range.

      Reply

  17. Tony Says:

    My Warden was my first capped character at 65. And honestly, whether changes have been good or bad… I have no idea, I’ve been so scared by having to essentially relearn and relearn and relearn this class that I’ve just been avoiding it entirely. I don’t even feel it’s worth it until there’s some general consensus that it’s “ready” and won’t have radical, fundamental changes on a patch to patch basis.

    I’ve been pretty cool with the whole agile approach of updating things and iterating… but what’s going on with the Warden just seems especially hectic and random lately.

    Reply

  18. Signard Says:

    The flavor of comments on the forums is starting to turn away from the despair over what was lost to things that have been made better. As far as I can tell, people are finding it easier to survive with a warden, but are still struggling to find ways of managing threat. Admittedly I haven’t been able to read every recent forum post, so perhaps my impressions are anecdotal.

    Reply

  19. SteveO Says:

    I am a lazy warden, i admit it! at lvl 40 or so but have not played him for months.
    I enjoy the class but just don’t find it fun having to learn what all the different gambits do at given times and with the changes I am more confused than ever. I used to have wardenease plugin running and it was a massive help to me. I take it wth the changes this is useless now i was wondering if anyone can recommend something that can do a similar job as this plugin or point me to a noob guide?

    Reply

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