PvMP Dev Diary- A Major Game Changer

July 19, 2012

LOTRO News, Monster Play

The Ettenmoors will never be the same after the changes mentioned in the new PvMP Dev Diary take effect.  Turbine wants to change the game for the better and man there are a lot of changes.  The long list is about the size of an expansions release notes and this is only for changes to an old system.  If you have tried the Moors before I think you will want to try it again after the changes listed here.  Turbine even admitted that they have been hoping for an easy fix for years now and it has not been working.  They decided that now is the time to look at each issue and address it individually instead of trying to find a one-time fix.  Players will have to wait until Riders of Rohan releases on September 5th to get these changes but the wait will be worth it.

So what is so different?  What is Turbine doing now that they didn’t look at before?  Well for one thing it sounds like they have a team actively looking at the current system and feedback from players so they can finally hope to fix the problem which is something they have not done before.

The list of changes is extremely long so I am not going to touch on everything but I will be looking at the main changes and trying to explain why they are needed.

Turbine starts the diary out by saying they are changing everything and they mean it.  There is not a part of PvMP that has been overlooked and so every part is getting huge improvements over the current system.  Turbine is trying to get a good foundation back in the Moors and they are planning to continue to improve beyond this update which is very encouraging.

The old system will soon be forgotten…

Landscape Changes

A large part of this update is a change to the way you fight in the Moors and what actually matters.  Currently a player’s main goal is to kill the opposing side but because of strange reward mechanics it is just as viable to get rewards by taking capture points.  This will not be the case when Rohan is released because Turbine is taking away the rewards for getting capture points and are doubling player kill rewards.  This is a huge step in the right direction and takes away what is likely the biggest problem in the Moors.

Now you might be thinking if there are not rewards for taking capture points then what is the point of having them.  Well Turbine, for once, is one step ahead of you and they have a new mechanic for the way capture points work.


Outposts are small capture points that really had no point once the switch was made to a unified currency system.  The only real reason to take an outpost was to get any enemy players that were hiding in it and to get a reward from a daily quest.  This is not going to be the case anymore.  Once Rohan gets released outposts will be just as important to control as a full base and here is why.  For every outpost your side has there will be a 10% Physical/Tactical Mastery buff per outpost for everyone on the map. That means that the more outposts you have the better everyone else on your side will be in the Moors.  For example let’s say you only want to get in a small group.  Before this change your only real option was to hunt down small enemy groups.  Now however if you decide to take an outpost, your small group will allow a large group on another part of the map get just enough of a boost to defeat the enemy raid and take back a large capture point.  This will make small groups not only viable but likely an essential asset in the Moors to ensure that you take and hold positions in the Moors.  This will be a nice way to get new players to be very valuable to the cause.


Keeps are large capture points that were contested for rewards instead of enemy kills.  This is about to change once Rohan comes out with a new map wide buff for every keep under your sides control.  This buff will be a massive 20% Infamy/Commendation earn buff per keep.  Since the rewards for capturing a keep have been taken away you are now taking and holding keeps so that you can earn more Infamy/Commendations when you are fighting Freeps.

The Delving

The Delving is a massive underground area in the Moors that was originally designed to be an area where players would learn how to play and to get their class skills.  This was changed when the unified currency came out and took away the need to go to the Delving.  Well friends there is about to be a really good reason to go to the Delving.  The Delving will now connect with most capture points allowing an alternate route to each capture point.  This will make camping, long term control and imbalances start to disappear now that there are multiple ways to get inside every capture point.  This will make players have to focus on not only defending the front of a base but also the underground entrance.  This should make each encounter with a decent enemy be interesting and engaging since they now can flank and surprise defenders much easier.  This is also a great change because it should be harder for one side to have complete control of the zone for weeks on end since there will be multiple areas that will need defended and will want to be defended to keep the buffs.

Also added into Delving is a very interesting mechanic.  Now going on raids to defeat Delving bosses will give you buffs against enemy players.  The Drake and Huorn will give you a 30% Infamy/Commendation earn buff per boss for the last side to have killed them. The Rogmul (Uber Delving Boss) is worth a 40% Infamy/Commendation buff for the last side who killed him.

The changes to capture points are great changes because now the reason to take a capture point is not for rewards but is instead to help you against enemy players.  This will also make leveling dependent upon killing enemy players instead of allowing players to level just by flopping capture points.

Other Changes

Session Play

Let’s say the enemy side has many or all the capture points.  Well now your side will get the option to play as a ranger/troll for 1 to 3 players.  These were already in the game but the implementation was not dependent upon how the fight was going in the Moors.  Usually the winning side would have many players on and also have several session play characters as well.  Well now that it is only given to the losing side this will help bring the map back to a balanced state and keep both sides evenly matched.


As briefly mentioned before, quests will now be focused on killing enemy players and not on taking bases or doing PvE content.  This is a great change and is really the way PvP should be in any game.


Audacity will now go to rank 14 and will still be obtained the same way.  There is now however a 15th Audacity that is won when your side has the relics (relics are like the flag in capture the flag).  While I don’t really understand why they are increasing it to rank 14 since the old buffs for R7 will be the same as the new buffs for R14, they are greatly reducing the cost of ranks 1-6 for both sides which is really good news because new players really need to get this skill as soon as possible.


Turbine is looking at hopefully doing several cool things with commendations including increased rewards for player kills, different rewards depending on how active your server is, larger bonuses for tougher opponents and reducing the costs of many things for Creeps.  This is a great change because the thing players whine about the most is how long the grind is for Commendations and this change should really fix any problems with that.


Freeps are getting better armor when Riders of Rohan comes out which was expected since there will be a level increase to 85.


Creeps are getting many balancing skill and cost changes with Riders of Rohan and I am really looking forward to playing my Creep Classes when these changes go live.

With Rohan all Creeps will be getting a 40% incoming healing buff spread over the first 9 ranks.  They are also increasing the damage for classes that they felt did not do enough.  These are two great changes to make sure we are still balanced when the cap gets increased.  The main thing I am most excited about is the increase to incoming healing because we have not had that before and now we should be much more balanced and my heals should be much more effective.

New Skills- I am not going to go through everything but the new skills sound great.  All the new skills will be able to be purchased once you reach rank 9.  The two that stand out are an exploding arrow for a Black Arrow which will explode 5 seconds after it hits an enemy.  This will do AoE damage to all players in the area.  The other new skill I am really excited about is the Defilers new skill (mostly from the wording).  The defiler can do a DPS attack that will also heal now which sounds alright until you read the description.

The Defiler inflicts terrible pain upon a foe. Nearby allies find the enemy’s suffering so joyous, they regain morale.

As you can see this is a very long list of MAJOR CHANGES coming to the Moors.  I am absolutely ecstatic about these changes and can’t wait to play my Creeps once Rohan comes out.  We are finally having an expansion that does things for Creeps and hopefully now that the foundation is laid so that they can move forward into uncharted terrain (like releasing a new map).

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About Andang

A lifelong Tolkien fan, Andang loves just about anything related to Tolkien. Andang is also a lifelong hardcore gamer with a huge love for any genre of game, as long as it is good. Andang currently writes for A Casual Stroll to Mordor and Middle-Earth Network's Gaming Team. He is also a co-host on Random Fandom, a weekly news podcast here on Middle-Earth Network. You can also find Andang on his YouTube channel and his Facebook page and if all that is not enough he has a twitter as well.

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29 Responses to “PvMP Dev Diary- A Major Game Changer”

  1. Bloodspill Says:

    It all looks very promising and im thankful to the devs for taking a really good look at PvMP. Im looking forward to RoR now hopefully it will be as good as it sounds.


  2. Rinvan Says:

    The changes sound good to me, anything that makes it easier to get comms is a great thing.


  3. LOTRO_Fanatik Says:

    Nice summary! I am very much looking forward to the changes and can’t wait for September. I wonder if purchasing the expansion will be required for Ettenmoors changes to be active?

    Regarding your write up, am I missing something in the diary that supports your statement, “old buffs for R7 will be the same as the new buffs for R14?” I wondered if they might be increasing the maximum potency of Audacity with the new ranks rather than decreasing potency for current Audacity ranks.

    Also, I didn’t see the Rank limitation on the Battlefield Promotion for the 40% incoming healing buff. You mention that it’s only through Rank 9, but I didn’t see that in the diary. I took it to mean the 40% was across all 15 Ranks.


    • Avatar of Andang
      Andang Says:

      I don’t think you have to purchase to get changes because that would make it really complicated.

      As far as the Audacity ranks they have mentioned that several times including in the dev diary.

      I coped and pasted that statement and just changed a few things so that it was in my own words but I am positive that it said through R9…I don’t know why though. It would make more sence to go to 15 but that is what the diary said.


  4. Avatar of Imperius
    Imperius Says:

    That’s good news about reducing the grind, but they have to be careful to what degree. If this proves too easy, it will piss off those who have toiled getting to higher rank via the old system. There needs to be a happy medium.

    Also if player kills are so much more attractive, it could lead to certain classes opting to solo rather than group in a raid (due to higher comm. return ratio). This could be an unfair advantage to classes geared for soloing by nature (minis, wardens, burgs) over those who have a harder time (captains come to mind ;p). The one perk joining a raid vs. soloing was that one could flip keeps to gain added comms and renown in addition to reduced creep kill rewards relative to solo returns; now that they remove this, it makes raiding less favourable.


    • Avatar of Andang
      Andang Says:

      They said they were working on a reward system to make raiding much more viable but that is all they said so who knows if it will ever actually happen. I also agree that there needs to be a happy medium and so that is why I think they are doing things like R1-6 of Audacity only costs around 1,500 coms instead of the full 6000 coms.


  5. Avatar of Imperius
    Imperius Says:

    They should also make the current 75 Moors armour an ingredient that reduces the purchase of the higher level armour, otherwise what’s the point of burning your comms now when they will add improved stuff in less than 2 months.


    • Ayalinda Says:

      They are;

      “Vendors in Glam Vraig are also offering a trade-in program! Each of the current pieces of armour can be traded in for a 10% commendation discount toward the upgraded version.”


      • Avatar of Andang
        Andang Says:

        Ayalinda is right here. There is a lot of information in the diary and so it took me several readings before I even felt comfortable about writing it (even though I would be looking at it the whole time I was writing).


  6. Layanor Says:

    This may make the moors a lot more fun. But that also means much more stress in the area. The moors can hardly handle a 24 vs 24 fight as it is.


    • Avatar of Andang
      Andang Says:

      I have seen it easily handle 48v48 but that is pushing it usually and it sounds like they are trying to spread out groups by making every location viable meaning that you will likely be needing to take multiple places at once to stay ahead of the enemy. I already have some pretty creative stratagies in working in my head right now.


  7. Gothnon Says:

    As I posted on the feedback thread, the one concern I immediately have upon reading everything is the new location of the rez circles and camps. I hate spawn camping, and that is exactly what is being set up. For everyone I think it would be better to set the rez circles in the delving with a similar setup to the dg/or entrances(ie you are safe at the top and drop down to the bottom, one-shotters exist at the top to ensure campers can’t get you, but as soon as you drop down you can’t turn back and you are back in the battle). With the new delving waypoints this allows players to still come back into play quickly.


  8. Gras Says:

    It seems the changes are influenced by other games, good but the Ettenmoors just don’t (yet) have all the settings for it.
    - You won’t start in Guild Wars with a rank0 like creep at pvp I guess, where pretty much your only option is to quest first a bit to become even a bit dangerous. I strongly disagree, based on experience, that pve is the main problem because of the high rewards (Even when playing a Warleader, and there are very seldom groups, I get more inf in the same time by pvping). That was actualy the one thing working, the quests rewards are quite lower than fighting freeps/creeps but high enough to help low ranks to start.

    - You mostly (maybe not on all servers) don’t have much “unity” in the Moors, egoism is big in pvp. When somebody is taking a keep it can for example easily happens that another group runs behind them, never ever touching a single npc (just going there to get rewards by killing enemies and get the take reward without helping) and when enough enemies come so that it gets hard that group just simply jumps off with full health and let the others who are busy on the npcs die there. With no direct reward for the quest that problem will get even bigger (who will now take the keep without getting anything, in meantime the others pvp and take the granted buffs without thinking about helping?)

    I would as main problems more think in direction of that the Moors are so often “zerg or get zerged” (how encourage even fights?). Also the lack of good use for stealth is troubling (with the big burg and especialy big warg popularity). Many stealth players simply just use their stealth that they can exclusively engage when it is a absolutely safe win, if their side is losing however, they simply stay in stealth and do nothing (acting more like a reward debuff to others engaging in fights they would have won anyway and being no help). They would here aswell need to think how they can encourage more teamplay to the Moors (and that without zerg raids), it otherwise is not working.

    Beside that I am not pleasantly surprised by the take away of the flag system. I can’t remember any really good tyrant/cg fights but saw some very nice fights for flags (when a raid comes in the last moment to prevent the take and it becomes a big battle if one side is getting there hand long enough on the flag).


  9. Pi Says:

    On my server (Snowbourn)there are always more creeps than freeps, so the map is red most of the time and after the update solo or small groups of players won’t have any chance in PvP cos of the huge creeps buff.


    • Avatar of Andang
      Andang Says:

      That is very surprising…on most servers Freeps are equal to or outnumber the Creeps


    • mrtoad Says:

      To be very clear, this is only in my experience in the moors, which is limited. And it’s only from the Landroval server. And I’ve only gotten my loremaster to rank 6 and my hunter to rank 9. And I’ve been playing this game fairly regularly since the summer of 2005 and have been in the moors since 2006. So with all of those qualifications, in my limited PvMP experience on Landroval, I’ve encountered red maps over 75% of the time since I’ve logged and been outnumbered probably around two-thirds of the time. Again, I’m just one person and ymmv. I’ll say thi: IU sure as heck WISH freep side had been the ones with far bigger numbers all these yeas!!! :)


  10. Pinkfae Says:

    I’m going to miss the PvE questing content. I usually like to do them when no one is out there and I’m waiting for people to show so that I can do some PvP. Now I have no idea what I’m going to be doing while I wait for people to log on. I’m also confused how maps will be earned for creeps.


    • Avatar of Andang
      Andang Says:

      I am sure they will come up with something but I hope it will not just be from the store


    • Ayalinda Says:

      They aren’t removing (m)any PvE quests. Infamy rewards are the same, the big thing is commendation rewards are going to be halved or removed. So PvE is going to be a lot less rewarding for commendations.

      But for low level creeps the cut to your questing commendations is more than made up for by the much bigger cut to skill costs, and you’ll still get maps (and the juicy Comm rewards) in the same way.


  11. Andy Says:

    Nothing disuades people more from doing grinds than finding out you need millions of whatever the currency happens to be.

    Reduction will make the process less painful and should help improve pvmp populations. A better population will then make the battles more interesting than glorified duelling as well as giving the potential for better earning.


  12. Michael Says:

    I wonder if it is worthwhile holding on to currently earned commendations so more bang for buck is obtained after ROR?
    Personally a little disappointed that there will be a reduction in quest earnings. As a souther hemisphere player there arent always many on at the time (creeps or freeps) so quests are the way to rank up.


  13. gaurdrail Says:

    I see that most miss the real reason to stop keeps from giving massive coms. A keep is rolled on creepside the map turns red, the raid group desolves after some questing all said done tons coms. then they log there freep toons flip back and farm kills. the ones activly doing that were so far ahead of the others it was pathetic.I personally think they shouldnt let them flip or make coms seperate from freep/creep. That in itself would stop farming for both sides. i love pvp but the first time i tryed pvmp i laughed so hard i had to stop.I aplaud the changes and look forward to more in the future.



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